SoyBooru
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full on special
My 'jak mogs both of the jaks ITT
or whatever
keep coping pooner
your raisinty music genre WNBAG
]
I still debunked your ass with an AI overview because i'm tired of debunking these basic Islamic counterarguments. give me something HARD
GEG you couldn't use actual theology and you're lazy, these are made up lies by Muslim apologists
Christ left behind a Church, that same Church compiled The Bible
Ignatius of Antioch is proof of this
You also ignored The Bible verse (ev&doe in the SPADEDran it calls The Bible the word of God as well)
ESL award
Ignatius of Antioch is a source that Islam is false (as Islam teaches that Jesus is a prophet and taught the word of your deity, Allah)
Ignatius of Antioch was a disciple of John, one of Jesus's apostle and His closest one.
John taught Ignatius theology and Ignatius' writings show many beliefs that not just normal Christians hold (Trinity), but beliefs Catholics hold (First Pope being Peter, appointed by Jesus)
If that we're the case, Ignatius would've been muslim, but he isn't, because that isn't the case and John taught Ignatius that Jesus is God (something muslims reject)
You have NO knowledge of theology and you should give up
This argument is not valid because prophets teach pure monotheism, the earliest disciples accept it, over generations, communities can corrupt or alter teachings.
Ignatius not being Muslim does not disprove that the apostles were Muslims; it only shows how fast the religious communities can change.
Scholars disputed that Ignatius was literally a direct disciple of John, but even many Christian historians say this tradition is late and unreliable. Ignatius' letters contained ideas that do not appear in the Synoptic Gospels. Jesus' divinity did not appear clearly in the earliest strata of Christian history: mainstream Western scholars acknowledge this, therefore, the fact that Ignatius beloved something later does not disprove what earlier disciples believed.
debunked you in one paragraph. just like that. stop namecalling and being aggressive.
Islam does teach that Jesus taught Islam
Ignatius was his disciple, sources like Saint Jerome prove it
And lastly, your theology IS raisin
Fuck your religion with blood on its hands, Trevor
Correct; but 'islam' in the Quranic sense does not mean the later historical religion practiced by Arabs after the Prophet Muhammed (PBUH). Islam = submission to God's true revelation, not a particular language, law' code, or later community. So yes, Jesus taught Islam, which means: pure monotheism, moral law, obedience to God, recognition of prophets, worship directed only to Allah. But this does not imply: that all later Christians must have stayed in this state, that all succeeding disciples remained upon the original message, or that anyone several generations later automatically held the same beliefs.
As a Shia Muslim, this claim is historically weak. For one, modern Christian historical research often noted that the claim that John taught Ignatius appears only in later church tradition. There is no contemporary evidence. and the tradition is considered legendary by many scholars. Being a disciple in name does not guarantee doctrinal continuity. Even IF Ignatius met John, this does not prove: he preserved Jesus' true message, he was protected from theological error, or that his later writings reflect the original teachings of Jesus (Isa).
Citing Jerome does not establish proof. Jerome lived 300 years after Jesus and the apostles, he is not a contemporary witness. His statements are late, ecclesiastical tradition, not firsthand historical evidence.
Christianity was in it's early stages
Jerome wasn't wrong, as other early church fathers had writings about Ignatius. Polycarp of Smyrna was a disciple of John along Ignatius, Irenaeus and Eusebius's writings are sources as well
Point and final, repent.
Being "early" does not automatically make a tradition historically reliable. The earliest centuries of Christianity were precisely when the most theological divergence and conflict occurred: Adoptionists vs. Docetists, Ebionites vs Gnostics, Monarchians vs early Trinitarians, Jerusalem Church vs Pauline communities. Even Christian historians agree that the first 100-300 years were doctrinally chaotic. Without a divinely guided Imam or Prophet, a religious community is not protected from corruption. Therefore, "early = reliable" is not accepted.
Even if we grant the Christian claim that Polycarp met John (thought this too is debated), it still does not prove that: Ignatius met John, Ignatius preserved Jesus' actual teachings or John taught any of these men that Jesus is God. Meeting a companion does NOT mean inheriting infallible doctrine. Even in Islamic history, many companions of the Prophet met him, many disagreed, misunderstood, or even fabricated reports.
Both of these men have major reliability issues from an analytical standpoint. Irenaeus (d. 202 AD): wrote 150+ years after Jesus, replied heavily on oral claims with no isnad system, aimed to defend proto-orthodoxy against Gnostics, used apostolic succession claims to strengthen his argument. Eusebius (d. 339 AD). Eusebius explicitly stated that he would "record what is useful to the Church" and ignore material that contradicted Church doctrine. This is ADMITTED BIAS, not neutral historiography. He also wrote after: the Council of Nicaea (325 AD), emergence of Nicene Christology, political enforcement of orthodoxy by the Roman state. His works reflect the theology of his time, not the era of Jesus or the apostles.
we TREVgemmyS just never lose debates can we?
thanks for the win
i'll be storing this in my notes app on my list of victories
Used ChatGPT again award
Obsessed Forced NAS Brimstone
lazy flamboyant person
Also in return we got Mexigemmy